The 2024 summer forum began on June 20th with keynote speaker Fatima Goss Graves. Fatima is president and CEO of the National Women’s Law Center (NWLC), president of the NWLC action fund, and co-founder of the TIME’S UP Legal Defense Fund. She has dedicated her life’s work to issues regarding income security and COVID relief, equal pay, ending sexual harassment and violence, health and reproductive rights, education rights, and workplace justice with a particular focus on outcomes for women and girls of color. Fatima is a nationally recognized leader in the fight for gender justice and is truly an expert in law, policy, and culture change.  

The discussion was moderated by Jessica Ellsworth, partner at Hogan Lovells and receiver of the NWLC inaugural pro bono impact award based on the firm’s work with NWLC for the past 15 years. With a focus on the Supreme Court and Court of Appeals, Jess has represented clients in every federal court of appeals and over a dozen state appellate courts. 

The conversation began with Fatima’s deeply ingrained values of fighting for gender justice and civil rights. Her parents, both previous plaintiffs in desegregation cases, instilled in her a commitment to justice from a young age. Now, as the president and CEO of NWLC, she and her team of litigators and advocates work to ensure meaningful access to and protection of health and reproductive rights, education and workplace justice, and provide low-income families with the support they need to thrive, such as affordable childcare. NWLC takes a multi-issue, multi-strategy approach to upholding systems of democracy and the rule of law that are at stake. 

Jess then shifted the discussion to the challenges that keep Fatima up at night. In her response, Fatima expressed concern that American Democracy is teetering toward authoritarianism, particularly highlighting the current upheaval in reproductive healthcare as a critical test of the nation’s systems of checks and balances and the judiciary’s relationship with the government and society. Along with the recent Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization (2022) decision, she specifically mentioned the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), which at the time was awaiting a decision in the Supreme Court. Knowing the work that NWLC does to combat these challenges gives Fatima hope. She has found that doing the nitty gritty work to meet the needs of people who require legal support is moving the needle. Jess and Fatima reckoned with these big-picture issues and agreed that in a world of frustration and defeat, it is important to celebrate and savor each win anytime you are able to do something to improve the lives of people. One of these “wins” for NWLC was achieving the largest investment as a part of the American rescue plan in childcare in history which was able to stabilize the childcare sector at a time when it was collapsing. Later in the discussion, Fatima also expressed her pride for NWLC’s successes in the class action lawsuit against Aetna alleging fertility policies discriminate against LGBTQ people, their work in challenging Betsy DeVos and the Trump Administration’s Sexual Harassment Rules, and the commitment of the attorneys working for the Times Up Legal Defense Fund. 

When it comes to cultural change, Fatima puts switching the narrative in her toolbox. She argues that the possibilities within the legal realm are shaped by cultural contexts, making it essential to engage with people in ways that resonate with them. The NWLC podcast, “Hearsay”, which she describes as “a culture first podcast with a dusting of law and policy” exemplifies this approach. By participating in broader cultural conversations and destigmatizing gender justice issues such as the pay gap, the podcast complements legal efforts with a shift in narrative. 

Fatima and Jess ended their conversation by addressing the period of ups and downs faced by the gender justice community. Fatima maintains, however, that in a much bigger picture, it is undeniably the case that we are in an arc towards justice. She advises current law students to be forgiving to themselves as they navigate their career paths in public interest positions, reminding them that there are many ways to make a difference and contribute to this overarching progression towards justice.

We learned some fun facts about Fatima Goss Graves through a few speed-round questions:

1. Who is your favorite professional athlete and which Olympic event are you most looking forward to?
   • Angel Reese and Gymnastics 
2. So far, what has been your favorite episode on your podcast, Hearsay, and who is your dream guest?
   • “Reality Check: Worker’s Rights in the Genre You Love to Hate” about the labor rights of people on reality TV and Serena Williams
3. What brings you joy?
   • Winning! But beyond that is arts, culture, and music.

A special thanks to our host, Fried and Frank LLP,  for providing a space for this exceptional opportunity for summer law interns to learn from our keynote speaker and ask their own questions.